You Can’t Build Muscle Over 35 Without TRT!

You Can’t Build Muscle Over 35 Without TRT!


What’s up, guys? Jeff Cavaliere, ATHLEANX.com. We’ve got a controversial one here for you
today. The fact of the matter is this – I’m going
to make the statement right off the bat. You cannot build muscle over the age of 35
unless you are on TRT, which is Testosterone Replacement Therapy, or as some would call
it ‘hormone replacement therapy’. I know this to be the case. I know this because someone left a comment
on my video that said that was true. So we know it must be true. Now I’m going to put this comment up here
and I want to read it for you, and then we’re going to start breaking it down because you
guys obviously have to sense the sarcasm in my voice. This ain’t true, okay? Now, let’s put some context here. The guy’s name is going to be blurred out. I’m not looking to cause a personal attack
by me, or any of my viewers against this guy because everybody’s entitled to their opinion. But his sentiment is downright wrong. Jessie wanted to nominate him as “Professor
Dickweed”, or something like that. I don’t care. You can call him whatever you want, but I’m
not going to name him publicly. But I want to read what he said. “Jeff, I really like your videos and I’ve
watched them for, maybe, two years now. But there’s an elephant in the room, and that
elephant is that you are on HRT” – hormone replacement therapy. I want to make it clear. I have absolutely no problem with this. In fact, at 42 you have little choice but
to be on hormone replacement therapy if you want to be truly athletic. But the problem I have with it, as some would
have with this video, is it leads to false expectations in anyone over the age of 35,
especially. Unless someone is a genetic freak they will
not be able to get that swollen, veiny, bulging look. Don’t get me wrong. They’ll look pretty good, but not like this
wrestler” – because this was not what I talked about, a wrestler in a previous video,
“and certainly not like you. So do your fan base – especially the older
guys – a favor and admit that you are on HRT so you can maybe help people get their
doctors, and/or anti-aging clinic and get the supplements they need to stay healthy
and active into their 60s. What’s the harm? I mean, I know there’s a stigma to this stuff,
even when prescribed legally by a doctor. But maybe you can help dispel this a bit by
letting people know how to do these supplements responsibly, and legally. Either way, I wish you the best with your
company, and your channel. I truly am not trying to bust your balls,
but again, I do not think it’s fair for you to keep one of the integral parts of training
over 40 a secret any longer. Your body needs testosterone and growth hormone
to function properly and repair itself. Sure, diet and hard work are fine, but without
adequate tested GH, their results will be GREATLY DIMINISHED” – capitalized – “and
may even result in injury. So consider coming clean. I think it would be good for you, the sport,
and the public’s perception of you. All the best.” Now, that’s a mouthful right there. Right there is a bunch of horse shit. I’m going to tell you why. It doesn’t anger me because he’s personally
attacking me, or trying to call me out for something he feels that I’m using; my secret. What angers me is what it does to those that
were thinking about starting and were discouraged by what he just said because what he just
said, he just set the bar really, freaking low. 35? You can’t look good after 35? I’m guessing he’s 36 years old, but the fact
of the matter is, to think that any ‘bulgy, veiny’ look, whatever it is, is strictly responsible,
or requires hormone replacement therapy – because after the age of 35 you just can’t have that
– is setting the bar so low. It is doing such a disservice to anybody that
watches this channel, any other fitness channel on YouTube, anywhere they go for advice, and
encouragement on how to look better than they do right now. It’s really a quitter’s attitude and that’s
my problem with him. He’s a quitter. He is determined that because of his lack
of ability to commit to a cause, that means nobody else can do it unless they’re a genetic
freak, or they’re using something that they shouldn’t be using. That pisses me off, guys. It really, really gets under my skin. That’s the reason why I’m making this video. I had another video planned for today, but
this one had to be done. What I think the problem is, is that when
you think about where this comes from, it comes from an insecurity on your own inability
to achieve something. So what you do is, you go and try to bring
everybody down to you. Instead of trying to aspire to get to this
level –whatever that level is that you’re achieving – you try to bring everybody else
back to the pack. There’s another saying. They say there’s two ways to have the biggest
building in town. The first is, you can knock all the other
buildings down, so your building is the only one standing. That’s the first way you could do it, or you
know what you could do? You could build the biggest fucking building
in the neighborhood. Then you’ve got the biggest building. This guy has chosen to try to knock the other
buildings down. But don’t let him discourage you. And I don’t say that because I’m angry that
he’s potentially discouraging customers of ATHLEANX, from people from buying programs
that I recommend. Guys, I have 800 and some-odd free videos
here that you know I put my best, and greatest content here for you each, and every week. Multiple times a week. There are so many people that use our programs,
and there are so many people that don’t use our programs. All of them unified by the fact that they’re
getting results, and they’re out there actually doing the work, and they’re not looking to
start bringing into the equation, elements that make their ability to obtain those results
impossible. This guy has. So, for the record, if you want to talk about
me – I’ve mentioned on this channel many, many times before – for someone that struggled
in their life to put on size, to have any muscle – and I’m not a huge guy, guys. I’m 5’10”, 175lbs. To have somebody accuse you of using some
performance enhancing drug – and I’ll throw hormone replacement in that group – anything
performance enhancing, other than what you’re naturally doing every, single day – for
someone to accuse you of that is one of the most ridiculous feelings. I feel like “Holy crap!” I could not imagine anybody would have ever
said that to me, at one point in time. The fact of the matter is, even Jessie, our
own, beloved Jessie, who’s put on 12lbs is getting accusations thrown his way. Which, to me, is laughable that the guy is
juicing, or doing something else. I mean, it’s so crazy. But that’s what happens. As soon as you start to look better, then
people start making accusations. Now, in this case the guy has two check boxes. Over the age of 35, TRT for you to look good. You look better than me? TRT. It’s like you fit those two criteria? TRT. It’s beyond ridiculous. As I’ve said; I don’t drink. I never have. I don’t use drugs. I never have. I don’t use anything. The strongest thing I’ve probably used in
my life is Tylenol, or maybe an antibiotic. I don’t smoke. I don’t party. I live a very, what some would say, a boring
life. But you know what? That boring life is what I like. I have a family, and my family prefers that
I live that life, and we have a good time with me living that life, believe it or not. It might not be the life for everybody, but
it’s what I choose to live. I have a very strict attention to my diet,
and what I eat, and my nutrition matters to me. I don’t eat cheat meals. I have my carrot cake once a year. As I’ve said to you before, the reason why
I don’t eat cheat meals is because I don’t feel like I’m cheating. I actually enjoy the foods I eat. It just so happens that I eat healthy foods. I can stay lean 365 days a year because I
love what I eat. The fact is, the foods I do eat are in line
with keeping me this way. They’re in line with keeping me lean because
I eat healthy foods all the time. I don’t feel tempted. Am I saying that is something that everyone
else has to do in order to look a certain way? No! I know people all the time – I know guys
that are older than me, they come to our live event, they send pictures in of what they’ve
been doing, following our programs, or not following our programs. They look better than me! I’m sure they drink. I’m sure they go out socially from time to
time. Surely, they eat carrot cake more than once
a year. You don’t have to do that to look good,
but that’s what I do. But to throw accusations that way, it’s sort
of more of a compliment and a boost to me, but it pisses me off because it’s what it
does to you. Again, this channel was meant to inspire you
about what is possible, and I will sit here, and I’m going to make this guy’s day a really
bad one because I’m going to tell him right now, to his face: 100%, everything that I
demonstrate on this channel is doable. 100%, everything that I stand in front of
you and demonstrate – my bulgy veins and all – is 100% doable with no TRT, with no
supplementation, with nothing but hard work, and a commitment to eating right. I know I just ruined your day. I just took away all of your excuses. Now what?! Now what? Well, I can tell you what. The rest of the guys, the guys that came here
with good intentions, the guys that are actually willing to work; you just became inspired,
and you should be inspired because you can achieve whatever it is you want. You’re going to have to prioritize. You’re going to have to work your ass off. All those things are never going to go away
and I would never bullshit you about that. Those elements will always have to be in place. There’s no way around that part, but if you’re
willing to commit to that, and you’re willing to bust your ass to really do what you need
to do then you have the ability to look far better than me. Far better than me because you’re willing
to put in the work. As far as the quitter goes; guys, like I said,
I can’t control the sentiment, but I will do this. I will offer him an olive branch to wrap this
all up. Dude, commit to your efforts. Instead of spending your time trying to figure
out every reason why you’re not looking as good as you should be, spend a little bit
more of that time focusing on actually trying to look better than you do right now. I promise you, you’re going to see improvements,
and I promise you, you’re going to be surprised about what you’re capable of doing when you
direct a lot of that energy, and focus toward something that’s going to help you in the
long run to build a bigger body, and to look better. I promise you. Guys, I had to make this video, like I said,
out of order. We have other videos scheduled here. I’m going to get back to those, but I think
this is an important message to get across to you. In the meantime, if you’re looking for a program
that puts it all out there, step by step – no TRT included, it’s not needed – the right
exercises, the right attitude, hard training, and good nutrition; that’s all over at ATHLEANX.com. If you’ve found the video helpful tell me
about other videos you want me to cover and I’ll do my best to do those for you in the
days, and weeks ahead. All right, guys. See you soon.

100 thoughts on “You Can’t Build Muscle Over 35 Without TRT!

  1. Want to win an ATHLEAN-X program for free, no strings attached? Click the link below to find out how!

    https://giveaway.athleanx.com/how-to-win.html

  2. Inspired. I’m 36 and only started making gains in my beginner weight program when I started watching techniques in these videos. Keep it up and thanks for this and other videos.

  3. Worked with a 42 year old Hungarian. Everyday I did pull ups and running around with cinder blocks with him. Guy was a beast. I'm 35 now, went back to the gym after 1 year off. 2 weeks, already doing 3×10 squatting 275, benching 225, rows 220.

  4. That's a lame thing to say..lol…like you said Jeff he's just insecure, maybe because he's lazy or have so many excuses… I'm 42 and still impressing my colleagues and they always said i look younger than my 30+ year old friends, and yeah still got muscles with 0 trt..

  5. I know Guy of 67 old vegan and God he is so musclier skinny but his so strong man his lag days is off the roof ya i believe i can be HIM one day 😁

  6. I'm 52 years old and I'm on Androgel and I don't get the gains from it in the gym. I get gains in the bedroom from the androgel.

  7. I disagree with Mr. Dickweed. I've grown up around construction workers and currently making it my lifestyle and all the older guys have well defined muscle areas that are constantly worked out by work and veins that nurses would love to work on. Yep, the older we get the more noticeable the veins look, especially if you work hard like a construction worker or work hard enough to achieve a lean look. Mr. Dickweed, you a hater. Go hit the bench, pull up bar and squat rack and take your hater issues there, hater.

  8. T doesn't magically drop on your 35th birthday. It eventually drops for everyone, but that also doesn't mean you're no longer capable. People can't explain how human civilization exists when we apparently can't survive without modern medicine and technology.

  9. Losers mentality thats what it is! I can accept failure,but i cant accept not trying. -MJ💯 Keep up inspiring people! God bless you man thanks💪

  10. I love your videos, I’m 38 and you are where I get all my training, I went from 289lbs to 204lbs and I’m stronger than ever! I have more muscle now than when I was 18 and i feel great. I don’t use TRT cuz i don’t even know what is that and I’m certainly not a freak cuz i was fat as fuck lol. Thank you for your dedication and example Jeff!!!

  11. I actually used to train like an animal at 27, before too but not weights. Saw 0 gains coz I was over doing it and not having rest days, I wasn't calorie counting. I'm now 36 and come back to it, within a few short months I've put on 2 inches on my arms. I am supplementing protein and nutrients, 2 days on 1 day off and actually started out quite lackadaisical, Just push-ups, sit-ups and pull-ups starting to ramp things up now with equipment.

  12. Even if you dont need it, wouldn't the TRT make it that much better? I would appreciate it if someone could give me advice about that

  13. I feel people are clowns straight haters for you go hard and have consistentcy and all I eat is plant am I’m not tempted shit I feel you Lol straight clowns I laughed literally laughed when a fool approached me saying what are you taking

  14. I’m 64. I eat meat and lots of it. I’m gaining muscle. I don’t take testosterone drugs. Keto/carnivore way of eating and exercise works very well. Whoever came up with the notion that you can’t build muscle without trt, must have been selling the meds.

  15. I’m 37 and I’m in better shape and have more muscle now than I did in my 20’s.
    I’ve implemented several exercises from your videos into my workouts – especially the ab workouts.
    Thanks for the great content.

  16. I'm glad I watched the vid instead of just reading the title, lol. I'm 43 and finally deciding to make the choice to eat right and get back into the gym. I almost got discouraged, lol. Glad to hear that an old man like me still has a chance to go beast mode and get jacked. I've watched so many different content creators saying what's the best way to eat healthy, I've confused myself and made it difficult for myself. I've decided to go back to basics and simply eat healthy. Your 40-40-20 split has dumbed it down so we'll for me. Thanks for all your vids. Thanks for not sugar coating the hard work and dedication it takes to get fit. I truly appreciate it. Time to put in the work and get it done, finally.

  17. I'm 44 and in the best shape of my life. I've done it through hard work, good food, lots of water, and proper sleep. I'm often asked by coworkers and friends what's my secret. There is no secret. People are always disappointed when they find out my body is the result of hard work and discipline. They don't want to hear that. They want to here about secrets. Sounds like that dickweed is in love with secrets instead of the truth.

  18. At over 35 if you need to look """good""" you are on the wrong path.
    Get family, kids and stay healthy to enjoy your life and family until you grow old, weak and gray.
    you are going to die
    Edit: there's a reason why vanity is a sin

  19. U are so right, it a commitment
    I'm very close to 76 now, my arms
    Are 15 1/2 I have worked out since
    I was 17, ya was a somewhat
    Bigger then but yes your testrone
    Drops off as u age just a fact of life, but does not mean your done
    Yes your recovery time takes longer, but your not done not at all
    Good diet, PROPER FORM ! DRIVE
    called the mind mussel connection
    I will and have said to many people in the gym keep away from me i

  20. Sorry I cut myself off ,keep away from me with negative vibes,
    U can make mussel at any age!
    I'm living proof, this guy teaching
    Here is good does not mean he is on roids, he just a dedicated hard
    Working smart lifter. He knows what he is doing, and he loves what he does. To this great guy dont get offended, there negative people
    There never going anyware,seen them still in there face at 75 plus
    Work hard work smart use proper form this this man shows u in all his videos always stay positive
    Let no one bring you down,there just loosers

  21. Hey Jeff new subscriber here. I just want you to know for the short time I've done your exercises, I've seen gains I've never seen going to my local gym. Your knowledge and the willingness to share that knowledge is what sets you apart from all the others! Love you man!

  22. Been lifting for 1.5 years now, turned 40 in April. Honestly, I haven't seen much gains. My diet has been not great but my dedication to the iron church has been unwavering.

  23. A i am 54. i go to the gym and get such a pump that my muscles and veins are popping. I take a shower and put my clothes on and feel like i am busting out of them and need bigger clothes. What more can i say. I take nothing but human food. No none of that or that or that. Just food. Oh, i love beer and cigars. Again i am 54 and plan next year to work my stomach into a 6 pack (not Heineken). Yah. bullshit! I am with you A. A. why don't you ask him what he does for work outs? I bet he hasn't lifted a weight at all and over eats. Shit, i am more motivated at 54 to make the young guys look bad. And you know what, they keep swelling around me at the gym trying to figure out why i am so cut and big for my grey haired age. I tell them work at it. By the way A. My go to natural is Garlic. I eat a clove a day an not only does it keep the bugs off me, but it runs my blood so well that it floods my muscles for a pump. Not any Garlic, but hard neck garlic….i grow it and i eat it and i give it to everyone for free. Let me know if you want me to ship some to you. Love yu A. A. I spoke cigars daily. I drink a six pack easily daily. I don't know what drugs are…never did and wont. I eat garlic and only natural foods, human foods not that chicken stuff vegetarian, but beef, pork, chicken, turkey, dinasour, you know it. 54 Baby…i make the young guys guess what drugs i am taking, but as i said drugs never have been and never will. Are not needed. Look what happened to Rich Piana. I know you will comment on my comment in your next vid as a follow up to this guy. And you should. A. send this guy and not just him but to all your viewers this video. It is in alignment with what you speak of…you have to work to be anywhere. Here is the link.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_ktRTWMX3M Now watch this Mr. doubter, and put your tail between your legs and go to the damn gym.

  24. 35 was a weird number to pick. Almost like he was targeting people who he knows would be viewing this channel to make them anxious. I can see how TRT might be a good option for someone in their, say, 50s or 60s, when it is true that on average you have steep declines in testosterone, but thats strictly if you care at that age about keeping the pumped up veiny look. Even with lowered test at that age you can still look in shape. Personally I don't think it would be worth it unless other factors like libido and no recovery were affecting my life.

  25. I’m glad you set this dude and any other doubters straight. Keep up the good work and keep the videos coming.👏🏾💯👏🏾💯👏🏾💯

  26. I am 48 years old and just began to work out and eat healthier for the last 9 months. I’m down 45lbs and in better shape than I was in my 20’s and my gains are without any kind of TRT therapy or drugs. Hard work produces results folks, don’t listen to dickheads like this….EVER 💪

  27. just reading the title of the video managed to discourage me a little for a few days XD it wasn't until I watched it that I saw it was sarcastic.

  28. Hey Jeff!I started watching your videos in about 8 months ago and ended buying your inferno program,and started training.I am 47 years old and I can confirm that everything that you show,and explaine is totally doable and brings amazing results.I personally got bigger and stronger.But yes I am working out hard 4 times in a week .Please don't even pay your attention on that kind of B.S. like you mentioned in your video.Please keep doing what your are doing for your followers. Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge!

  29. It is much harder on 2019 because men and women’s hormones are much lower now than they were 100 years ago. Period

    If we are healthy and levels are good. This is all doable. Most folks don’t want to eat right and train right. I got ripped at 35… I wasn’t on trt like I am today at 41.

    Mister scientist is a dickweed.

    Go read the studies it’s true.

  30. I like beer. I am 44. I may not be ripped like Jeff. But I am fucking better for his videos. I am strong for my age ( or any age)… I have eliminated bad habits and the aches and pains associated with them. My shouldera are no longer rounded ( strength through good mechanics) and I can own the average 20 year old in a push up competition as a 115kg 44 year old. To hell with hormone replacement ( unless you have a legit medical need).

  31. i`m sixty five and still putting on muscle – I eat right and exercise right – I don`t take TRT. I don`t drink don`t smoke don`t do drugs

  32. Started looking for exercise videos on YouTube a few weeks back and saw this video come up in my search results. Was pissed when I saw what the title said thinking you were serious. Then I found out what you’re all about and now I’m giggling. Keep up the good work!!

  33. I'm 32 and am now starting to gain weight and muscle and am all natural. I drink alot of water, Natural tea, vegetables, meats. Just really anything I want that is good for you.

  34. That comment is bs lol.. I heard of a 100 year old body builder who was still lifting and had impressive biceps. Lifting weights causes your body to naturally make more T.

  35. Every time I go to LA Fitness, there is this 55 year old guy there missing an arm and I respect him so much for that. You have no excuses!

  36. You just explained comunism, and even "equality of outcome", im inserting politics here, because I belive, what people believes tells a lot about them, a lot of quitters are inclined to have similar believes, and the structure of their believes determine how they make choices.

  37. If you want to get jacked better start early, like in your 20s, and by your 30s you'll be even more muscular, but to get to that point you have to keep it up with hitting the gym everyday

  38. Awesome. Video, I am 48, I started bodybuilding at 47, I went from 167”lbs to currently 196lbs, no drugs ever, fully natural, thank you Jeff.

  39. 53, best shape of my life. I use this channel and Calimoves for most of my training info. And thank you so many big (and little) changes you've shown me have helped. One important one is how to do the exercises with correct form and cadence. Another is rest. I was definitely Italy overtraining and doing too much cardio.

    As far as diet, I was good before coming here but I couldn't agree more with what you say.

  40. This is CRAZY!!!…I'm 37 and VERY athletic…I'm not that big..but ONLY by choice because I'm a Martial Artist and choose conditioning and speed over size…I've ALWAYS been a lil guy..BUT…there ARE ways to maintain testosterone if that's an issue…with Nutrition and Exercise…I'm glad you made this video Jeff!!!

  41. Im 43 and my goal is to look as good as i did when i was a trained athlete, im going to do it the same way i did when i was young…. natural eating good and training like i want it!!!

  42. I beg to differ, I know older people who are still getting bigger and they in their late 30s early 40s and still growing with no steroids all natural

  43. I like your channel. I am 45 years old and I have started working out I am worried that I won't be able to get a physique like a late 70's pro bodybuilder. Is it still possible?

  44. Hey, I enjoy your videos, they are very helpful. You have talked to us many times about changing bad habits during our workouts. Have considered changing the amount of propane words you use?

  45. One question Jeff: I'm 21 but as a kid, I used to sit improperly for very long periods of time which, as you can imagine, curved my back! – as a result, Deadlifts are damn hard for me: any replacement suggestions?

  46. I'll tell you what there were plenty of people in ancient times that didn't even eat meat and are some of the strongest people in history. 40 year old barbarians that would crush your little peasant head in his fist like a small apple. Idiot needs to to some research before even spouting such nonsense…

  47. It's funny how Jeff's haters arguments range from saying he can't be that strong without taking steroids to saying that he is not strong at all.

  48. Thanks for this video Jeff!  I'm 38 and basically skinny fat, lol.  Lost 25 pounds last year, but starting thinking maybe I'm getting to old to build any real muscle.  I just need to put in more work!  Thank you! You have a new subscriber in me

  49. I'm 64 and still growing muscle. I eat normal healthy foods, drink only water and water based teas, I do drink Raw Milk too, take 16 grams a day of vitamin C, mega units of D3, walk 3 miles every day with my dog at 6AM, then go to the gym 3 days a week after the walks. Sex, at least once every two days on the average. I started working out when my father gave me a bench for my 13th birthday. I STILL HAVE THAT BENCH AND IT IS FUNCTIONAL! I was a P.E. major but after 2 years joined the Army. Got out in Europe and persued a teaching degree using my GI bill. Was a First Grade Teacher with the Department of Defense for 20 years. During those years I participated in international power lifting events, played semi-pro Football until I was 33, had back surgery, still have 5 herniated disks to deal with, have gained weight due to injury…..bla bla bla. As Jeff says NEVER GIVE UP, STOP BULLSHITTING YOURSELF, AND COMMIT! i'M 64 AND STILL WANT TO DO MORE!

  50. So refreshing to see someone else who leads a boring life. I'm an ex-partier, so I've seen both sides. Boring and healthy takes it every time.

  51. Someone should point the knucklehead to some pics of Clarence Bass: https://www.cbass.com/PICTORAL.HTM
    Clarence never took a supplement in his life.

  52. Hell yeah man! You tell that guy! I’m 30 and looked up “can you get fit at 30” and this is the first video that popped up. I literally thought you were 35 at the most this whole time. Thanks for the inspiration!!!

  53. Ive been lifting for 6 years. I remember around about 3 years in, of gruelling repetitive excessive hard work and clean eating, people started accusing me of using enhancement drugs as well. Its in the human psychy to allow pride to take control of our emotions and instantly judge those who can achieve more than us with HARD work. "In the long run" is the whole point; life is a marathon not a sprint (cliche) and results come with time, commitment, and hard work. Not everyone who achieves something great had to cheat to get there. #CompoundEffect

  54. I'm 42 and I am still finding more new muscle gains. I am doing things different with diet and trying new weight lifting exercises.

  55. Jeff, you are an inspiration. Keep up the amazing work. I learn so much from you everyday and it helps me tremendously in my weight training and keeps me motivated. Thank you so much.

  56. Jeff's right. I'm 38 and just started working out again 5 to 8 hours a week after taking about a decade off. It's only been 3 months and I'm getting ripped and losing unwanted fat weight at the same time. I've lost 20 lbs overall in 3 months and my arms stretch out a 3x T-shirt sleeve from the muscle I've built in this short amount of time. Belly's getting smaller, arms are getting bigger. No supplements besides an occasional protein bar and no TRT. Not trying to brag, just saying we middle aged men can still get fit and ripped without drugs or supplements. There's a guy at my local YMCA who is 49 years old that just started doing this a year ago and has a chest like a gorilla, he says just diet and exercise too. Dude does dumbell flies on his back with 100 lbs in each hand. No excuses, just work out, live better, feel better. I have a long way to go yet, but I'm on my way to being in the best shape of my life, so can you.

  57. At 47 I had abs. Now im 52 I'm starting again gained about 20 lb but I'm losing the weight again. Pretty quickly too. So I started taking pictures this time.

  58. 44 years old 180 pounds building muscle. I'm vegan at that plus I drink red wine . The guy don't know what the hell he is talking about.

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